PHP

TimWolla

2:45 PM

@QuolonelQuestions The “How To” page should probably be rewritten to match the current reality better. I guess that most of the active RFC writers don't really look at that page any more and just work based on their experience and the RFC template that is automatically loaded.

Voting on the implementation is not really a thing, as Ilija already said.

@QuolonelQuestions Sorry, was off my computer on the weekend, but the answer would've been "didn't read the RFC yet" either way.

rfc-vote RoundingMode enum | Make the GMP class final | Static class | Fix up BCMath Number Class / Change GMP bool cast behavior

Crell

3:59 PM

The template for a new RFC is also pretty solidly wrong, too. It still claims PHP is an untyped language. :-)

Derick

you can fix the template... it's a wiki, not? :-)

Crell

I don't know where the template even is.

And don't want to get yelled at. :-)

Derick

4:29 PM

wiki.php.net/rfc/template — it says so right at wiki.php.net/rfc ;-)

Crell

So how many people will I piss off if I start editing that? :-P

Derick

you can always put up an RFC about it :-D

It's a quote though, so not something you can just change.

Crell

I figured I'd just remove the quotes from people who haven't been involved in the project for years...

Mark R

4:50 PM

Crell inviting the wrath from high upon the thing

Quolonel Questions

6:22 PM

@TimWolla It's not likely to matter. Approval is already below 50%

Even though people have been trying to introduce it for 16 years

Levi Morrison

6:47 PM

I don't want static classes because I think people need to get over functo-phobia, but I don't see any reason to forbid this.

Partially because namespace-private functions aren't a thing. Wish we had a better module system, but I don't even want to look inside that discussion thread >.<

Quolonel Questions

7:44 PM

lol thanks for your vote :)

Quolonel Questions

8:14 PM

>I think people need to get over functo-phobia

Is your meaning that you're also from the namespaced functions camp primarily?

Levi Morrison

9:12 PM

@QuolonelQuestions Yes. Functions are fine. People are obsessed with autoloading and such. Preload the functions, it's not going to be a problem at all...

Quolonel Questions

I think there's also something to be said for prefixing the call with a meaningful grouping identifier (the class name) which can be applicable in some situations

And something to be said for adding one import for a collection of functions you're likely to use together instead of one per function

But I didn't make any arguments for any of that in the RFC because it was never the point to push for a particular pattern over another

It's the sort of feature you can just ignore if it's of no value to you

Levi Morrison

@QuolonelQuestions You know... like putting them in the same file...

Quolonel Questions

The file itself does not form part of the call in the code

TimWolla

9:52 PM

use My\Functional\Library as functional;

functional\some_func();

That works.

Mark R

Yet almost no-one will use it because it has to be done manually in most cases.

Quolonel Questions

Good thing I didn't make that argument then :^)

IluTov

11:10 PM

@QuolonelQuestions "In particular, classes with a private constructor can still be instantiated via reflection and faux-deserialization hacks." Just use an enum with no cases. :D

FWIW, I think you did a good job with both writing and implementation. You mostly just picked a somewhat controversial first RFC. ^^

Girgias

@IluTov, not sure yet what commit it is running on, but seems like PHP_CS_FIXER is hitting some new parser issues github.com/PHP-CS-Fixer/PHP-CS-Fixer/actions/runs/9946462553/…

I don't know if it's related to the from /* comment */ yield or maybe the merging of property hooks?

IluTov

@Girgias The yield thing is present since 8.3, so probably not that.

Girgias

It uses commit 85b7181d7dd6e155a74d0392e1fd20e41b9768a1 so probably property hooks then

Quolonel Questions

@IluTov Thanks man, that means a lot :^)

Kinda crazy it's still considered controversial after 16 years of people trying to add the same feature

Girgias

I am not sure why time would make an idea less controversial?

IluTov

11:16 PM

@Girgias I think it comes from: <?php foo($bar{"mode"} & $baz);, which was removed fully in this RFC.

Quolonel Questions

@Girgias Apparently it made it MORE controversial

Girgias

@IluTov Passed the info onwards

IluTov

@Girgias Thanks

Quolonel Questions

[9 years ago](https://externals.io/message/79211#79212) Marco said:
>I can really see a lot of cases where I needed this: badly.

Today he votes against it

Girgias

@QuolonelQuestions I will be honest, I didn't really follow the discussion on the ML as sooooo much traffic, but this just makes me go and try and wrap up the function autoloading RFC

@QuolonelQuestions People can change their mind, and realize that maybe something is not that good an idea after having dealt with it

Quolonel Questions

11:18 PM

@Girgias Every time someone brings this up I see it as a false equivalence

I would still propose this, exactly as it is now, if function autoloading was a thing

Girgias

Static classes are a poor man's "module"

Because OOP is, well a design choice that I think most people are realising ain't ideal

Well, correction, to me they feel like a poor man's "module"

Quolonel Questions

If we had modules that would be great. And static classes would not stand in the way of introducing modules

Girgias

The point is that, IMHO, the "solution" is modules, not static classes

It's not because we can have both that we should

Quolonel Questions

We have static classes whether you like it or not. Just implicitly rather than explicitly, and that's not a far reach

Félix Adriyel Gagnon-Grenier

I can't think of anything I thought 9 years ago that I still think today, except for like basic things like "murder is bad"

Girgias

11:29 PM

@QuolonelQuestions I think static classes are not a good idea, thus I don't think the language should encourage it.

Quolonel Questions

It's not encouraging. It's just reflecting reality

Girgias

Okay, you are missing the point, I will stop arguing

Quolonel Questions

No, I hear you. Modules are the way

But I disagree that they must be mutually exclusive. How long are we supposed to wait for this modules vaporware?

Girgias

The discussion about any idea of modules just occurred, checks notes, this past month

And I'm not sure how fruitful that conversation was, as it sprawled into so many threads with so many messages, but I know some people have been collating ideas

It's not because something is technically feasible really easily that it should be done. 3/4 of SPL is that and it is a horrible thing

Transcript for